Customer research

Customer Research

Overview

This skill covers how B2B marketers should conduct, structure, and apply customer research across its full range—from direct customer interviews and win/loss programs to sales call analysis, social listening, and secondary research. All practices are sourced exclusively from guests on the Exit Five podcast. Where guests disagree, those disagreements are surfaced explicitly rather than resolved.

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Foundational Principles: Why and When to Research

Research before strategy, always. Before developing messaging, selecting channels, or building campaigns, ground your work in customer and market data—not internal brainstorming. Start with customer research, analyze calls, look for themes and patterns, and map insights to your strategy. (Source: Diane Wiredu, Episode #300)

Use writing difficulty as a research signal. If you're struggling to write copy or develop messaging, it's not a creative block—it's a research deficit. Go back and gather more data before trying harder to write. Once you have enough research, the writing flows naturally. (Source: Will Hoekenga, Episode #181)

Know your category deeply before writing anything. You cannot write compelling stories or positioning without deep understanding of your category and its problems. The test: you should know your category well enough to write a book about it. Spend time understanding the problem space, competitive landscape, and customer pain points before attempting to write positioning or story. (Source: Harry Dry, Episode #303)

People buy on triggers, not pain points. People can experience pain for years without taking action. They buy when a specific trigger event occurs—a life-changing moment that creates urgency. Identify these triggers through customer interviews, then create content around those trigger events and associate your brand with them. (Source: Louis Grenier, Episode #322)

Research customer trigger events before building demand strategy. Before launching demand generation campaigns, conduct customer interviews with your best-fit customers to identify the specific trigger events that led them to purchase. Look back at your last 50 good-fit customers and understand what incident or life-changing moment preceded their buying decision. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #322)

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Direct Customer Interviews

Setting Up an Interview Program

Align the interview program to stakeholder goals before launching it. Before starting a customer insights program, identify what your key stakeholders (sales, CS, product, leadership) already want to achieve—case studies, competitive intelligence, testimonials, ROI metrics—and frame the interview program as a means to deliver those outcomes. This removes the need to convince stakeholders of the value of "talking to customers" in the abstract. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Build a collaborative interview pipeline using a shared project board. Create a shared project board (Google Sheets, Asana, Monday, etc.) that tracks customer interview candidates through stages: recommended by CS, ICP fit assessment, interview request sent, interview completed, insights documented. Collaborate with the customer success team to identify and vet candidates. This makes the process repeatable rather than ad-hoc. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Offer monetary incentives to increase participation. Compensate interview participants for their time using a tool like Tremendous, which allows recipients to choose between gift cards, direct bank transfer, or charitable donation. Standard compensation is $85 for 30 minutes; increase to $105 in follow-up emails if needed. Expect approximately 15–20% conversion rate on outbound recruitment. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Schedule regular ICP interviews to source content ideas. Schedule 15-minute recorded interviews with 2–3 ICPs per week (mix of customers and cold-outreach prospects). Spend the first 7 minutes asking about what podcasts they watch, what makes them laugh, and recent funny workplace moments. Offer interviewees edited clips in return for their time. (Source: Chris Cunningham, Episode #347)

Conducting the Interview

Focus on the problem and customer journey before the product solution. Start interviews by exploring the customer's problem state before they knew your solution existed. Ask about what they were doing before, what pain points they faced, what goals they were trying to reach, and what solutions they considered. Avoid jumping immediately to how they use your product—that's the middle of the story, not the beginning. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Use 3–5 core questions and spend the majority of time on follow-ups. Rather than working through a checklist of 8–10 prepared questions, conduct interviews with 3–5 core questions and spend the majority of time asking follow-ups: "Can you tell me more about that?", "Can you give me an example?", "Why is that important?", "Can you walk me through what that looks like?" The first answer a customer gives is typically generic. Dig deeper to uncover specific details and reasoning. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Use three specific techniques to extract deeper insights. (1) Pause for 3–4 seconds after a customer's short answer rather than jumping to the next question—they will often elaborate unprompted. (2) Ask clarifying "why" questions that seem obvious (e.g., "Why is getting a higher conversion rate important?") to uncover the real underlying motivation. (3) Use the "so you can" exercise: for any benefit or pain point, ask "so you can [do what]?" to get to the deeper job the customer is trying to accomplish. (Source: Will Hoekenga, Episode #181)

Keep a notepad during the interview to maintain active listening. During a customer interview, jot down follow-up questions on a physical notepad or document as the customer speaks. This allows you to stay fully present without mentally juggling a checklist of prepared questions. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #250)

Use job-to-be-done interview methodology for PLG and zero-touch companies. For companies without sales teams, conduct customer research using job-to-be-done interviews. Ask: (1) What were you doing before? (2) What was the struggling moment that made you change? (3) How did you create a shortlist? (4) How did you find out about us and competitors? (5) Why did you pick us? (6) Why not the other guys? (7) Was there anything surprising (positive or negative)? (Source: April Dunford, Episode #309)

Ask specific survey questions to uncover emotional drivers. When surveying customers, avoid generic questions like "why did you choose us?" Instead ask: (1) "What was going on in your life that made you search for a solution like this?" to uncover the emotional moment before purchase, and (2) "If we took this product away tomorrow, what would you miss the most?" to identify your actual value proposition. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #231)

End win/loss interviews with an open-ended CEO perspective question. Use this question near the end of interviews to unlock new perspectives: "If you were the CEO of my company, what would you do to better serve people like yourself?" This often reveals insights that structured questions miss. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Extract ROI metrics by asking customers to compare before and after states. When a customer mentions their previous approach (e.g., "we used spreadsheets"), ask follow-up questions to quantify the before state: How long did it take? How many people were involved? How much time per week? Then ask the same about the after state with your product. This comparison often reveals time savings and cost savings metrics customers can articulate when prompted. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Use customer interviews as a cheat code when you're not a subject matter expert. When joining a company in an unfamiliar domain, conduct qualitative customer interviews focused on product-market fit questions (what was happening before, what did it unlock, what concerns did they have). Extract language, positioning, and messaging directly from customer responses. This bypasses the need to become a domain expert yourself. (Source: Kevin White, Episodes #286 and #179)

After the Interview

Write summary notes immediately after each interview while details are fresh. Within minutes of completing a customer interview, write up comprehensive summary notes capturing key takeaways, quotes, and insights. Don't delay—waiting causes details to fade and forces you to re-summarize from recordings. Fresh notes provide better context and interpretation than relying solely on AI transcripts. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #250)

Create a shared database to document and tag customer insights for reuse. After each interview, document key excerpts (direct quotes or paraphrases) in a centralized spreadsheet or database (Google Sheets, Airtable, etc.) and tag each insight by type: differentiator, ROI metric, testimonial, pain point, etc. This allows you and other teams to filter and find relevant insights later without re-listening to recordings. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Share customer interview insights in real-time via Slack. After each customer interview, post top 2–3 takeaways to a company or team Slack channel immediately. Share positive feedback publicly to boost morale. Share critical feedback or product complaints directly with the relevant team rather than in public channels. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Print customer research and read it on paper while annotating. When working with customer interviews or research data, print the transcripts and read them on paper while taking handwritten notes. This analog approach engages your brain differently than reading on screen and helps you absorb and internalize insights more deeply. (Source: Emma Stratton, Episode #234)

Apply customer insights across multiple deliverables. After collecting and documenting customer insights, apply them across multiple initiatives: case studies, positioning and messaging, website copy, sales battle cards, ICP refinement, and product roadmap influence. Don't limit insights to a single deliverable—they compound in value when applied across the organization. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

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Win/Loss Programs

Launch with a six-week retrospective pilot on past deals. Start a win/loss program by looking back at deals from the previous two quarters rather than waiting for new deals to close. This gives you a larger pool of deals to recruit from and lets you prove the program's value quickly. Run a focused six-week sprint targeting a specific business goal. After the pilot, transition to ongoing win/loss on new deals. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Narrow win/loss scope to specific customer segments for stronger insights. Focus win/loss interviews on a specific, narrow customer segment (e.g., fintech mid-market) rather than applying the program across your entire business. Conducting 10–15 interviews within a single segment yields more actionable insights than the same number spread across multiple industries, company sizes, or use cases. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Prioritize close-won interviews over close-lost. Structure win/loss programs to emphasize close-won deals rather than obsessing over losses. Close-won interviews reveal why customers chose you, what criteria they used, what concerns they still have, and how the sales experience compared to competitors. Include close-won, close-lost, churn, and renewal interviews—not just pipeline losses. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Involve sales, product, and marketing leaders in designing interview questions. Before conducting win/loss interviews, meet with heads of product, sales, and marketing to understand their goals and assumptions. Use these conversations to develop a question set that directly ties to revenue goals and business priorities. Stakeholders are more likely to act on findings when they helped shape the research. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Structure win/loss interviews around the customer buying journey. Walk customers through their buying journey in a casual, conversational way. Start with what triggered evaluation, then move through criteria they used, how they compared vendors, strengths and weaknesses of your pitch, and the sales process itself. Record all conversations for transcription and review. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

Conduct competitive intelligence interviews with former competitor employees. Reach out to former sales reps and product managers from competing companies via LinkedIn, offer them compensation ($85–$105 for 30 minutes), and conduct direct, transparent interviews about how competitors position against you, their sales tactics, and why they win or lose deals. Be upfront about who you represent and respect any non-compete agreements they may have signed. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

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Sales Call Analysis

Extract real questions and language from sales calls for content creation. Pull actual sales call transcripts and extract real questions customers ask, the language they use, and the concerns they raise. Cluster these questions by topic to identify content gaps and opportunities. This can be done manually by copying and pasting from Gong or similar tools, or at scale by connecting MCPs to Claude or ChatGPT to automate extraction and clustering. (Source: Eoin Clancy, Episode #336)

Mine sales call transcripts to generate authentic ad hooks and campaign ideas. Feed real sales call transcripts into your ChatGPT Project and prompt it to extract ad hooks, campaign themes, and messaging angles that reflect actual customer conversations and pain points. Repeat this process weekly or bi-weekly as new sales calls occur to maintain a fresh pipeline of validated campaign ideas. (Source: Pranav Piyush, Episode #285)

Analyze recorded sales and customer calls with AI to identify trends and pain points. Load recordings of sales calls, SDR calls, and customer success calls (via Gong or similar) into a corporate ChatGPT instance. Use AI to identify recurring pain points, reasons for lost deals, reasons for wins, and emerging customer trends. You can also create custom GPTs that represent your customer personas to test whether positioning and messaging resonate with them. (Source: Jennifer Delevante-Moulen, Episode #288)

Extract LLM prompts from recorded sales calls and customer research. Analyze recorded sales calls and customer conversations at scale using AI tools to identify common themes, objections, and questions. Use these insights to generate a prioritized list of prompts that LLMs are likely being asked about your product category. Cross-reference with Google Trends, competitor rankings, and paid search keyword data to validate and expand the list. (Source: Clare Schmitt, Episode #324)

Use AI to analyze call recordings for messaging insights and objection patterns. Use AI to analyze recorded sales calls (from Gong, Chorus, Fathom, etc.) to identify common objections, customer language patterns, and messaging themes. Feed these insights into marketing copy, ad creative, and customer persona development. (Source: John Short, Episode #271)

Build a persona GPT trained on customer call data and feedback. Build a custom GPT trained on aggregated customer call transcripts, customer interviews, and feedback data to create a digital representation of your ideal customer profile. Use this Persona GPT to test messaging, simulate objections, get feedback on website copy, and generate customer-centric insights. (Source: John Short, Episode #271)

Extract customer insights from call transcripts for product marketing and battle cards. When launching new products or features, search transcripts for mentions of that feature or related problems. Build battle cards by analyzing competitor mentions across all sales calls—extract what customers liked and disliked about competitors. (Source: Michael Cole, Episode #212)

Sit in on sales calls to observe how prospects actually respond to your content. Marketing should regularly observe sales calls and watch how prospects interact with decks, messaging, and materials that marketing created. This reveals gaps between what marketing thinks will work and what actually resonates. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #170)

Refine positioning by observing how salespeople naturally articulate value. (Note: this is contested — see Where Experts Disagree.) Listen to how salespeople naturally communicate with prospects and learn from their language choices. If salespeople are not using your positioning as written, ask them why they're saying it differently instead of assuming they're wrong. Their real-world customer conversations often reveal gaps in your positioning or messaging that need to be adjusted. (Source: Jessica Andrews, Episode #217)

Listen to customer calls to understand the pain and anguish your product solves. Regularly listen to sales calls and customer conversations to hear directly how customers describe their problems, the emotional impact of those problems, and how your product changes their situation. This deep customer empathy becomes the foundation for authentic marketing messaging and positioning. (Source: Brian Kotlyar, Episode #118)

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ICP Definition and Validation

Validate ICP by analyzing high-NPS customers and referral patterns. When entering a new role or questioning your current ICP, conduct a deep dive into which customers have the highest NPS scores, actively refer you, and derive the most value from your product's advanced features. Map the characteristics of these customers (company size, industry, use case complexity, revenue level) to identify your true ICP. (Source: Kady Srinivasan, Episode #276)

Validate niche audience selection through lightweight research before scaling. Before committing to a go-to-market strategy, conduct lightweight research to validate that your chosen niche audience is viable and underserved: (1) identify which personas are getting the most value from your product today, (2) conduct desk research to understand where that audience hangs out and what they complain about, (3) talk directly to users via Zoom calls, (4) interview internal stakeholders, and (5) analyze competitive gaps in how that audience is currently being served. (Source: Erin May, Episode #337)

Validate your niche through external conversations, not just internal strengths. When choosing a niche, combine what you're good at with external validation from people further along in the journey or in adjacent markets. Have networking conversations with potential customers or adjacent practitioners to identify which of your skills are actually in demand before committing fully. (Source: Lashay Lewis, Episode #192)

Validate ICP through audience survey before monetization. Before building products or monetization offers, send a survey to your existing audience to understand what they actually want from you, rather than assuming. Use the results to refine your ICP and inform what products or services you build. (Source: Amanda Goetz, Episodes #244 and #158)

Prioritize deeply understanding a narrow ICP over claiming a large addressable market. When defining your market, choose to deeply understand a tightly defined customer segment rather than claim a large but poorly understood market. Focus on perfect-fit customers with proof of successful acquisition, and invest in frequent, high-fidelity customer meetings to continuously learn about them. (Source: Andrew Davies, Episode #195)

Conduct a rapid listening tour with customers and internal teams when joining as a new marketing leader. When joining a company as head of marketing, quickly conduct a listening tour with both internal teams (product, sales, executives) and external customers to understand the business, positioning, and market. Keep the tour short to avoid delaying strategic decisions, but move fast enough to get up to speed on positioning, messaging, and what's actually working. (Source: Kevin White, Episodes #286 and #179)

Document jobs-to-be-done as customer outcomes, not product features. Create a list of 5–10 concrete outcomes or jobs your product helps customers accomplish, framed from the customer's perspective and business context—not as product capabilities. Examples: "prepare a quarterly business review deck for my CFO," "submit an annual financial plan." This document becomes an input for AI-generated campaign ideas and ensures messaging focuses on customer value rather than feature lists. (Source: Pranav Piyush, Episode #285)

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Messaging and Positioning Research

Base messaging on market signals and customer research, not internal brainstorming. Start messaging development with customer research—speaking to customers, analyzing calls, looking for themes and patterns—rather than workshopping ideas internally. Even in the age of AI, manually review customer quotes and call transcripts to identify patterns. (Source: Diane Wiredu, Episode #300)

Follow a structured five-step messaging development process. (1) Document and evaluate existing messaging to establish a benchmark and identify gaps; (2) Conduct voice of customer research to understand what customers think and say; (3) Perform competitor messaging audit to identify white space and avoid me-too messaging; (4) Synthesize findings by manually reviewing transcripts, highlighting themes, and mapping priorities; (5) Document messaging blocks into a source of truth (one-pager, messaging hub) that teams can reference. (Source: Diane Wiredu, Episode #226)

Extract sticky copy and unusual angles from customer research. During voice of customer research, actively listen for memorable, unusual, or distinctive ways customers describe your product—not just the surface-level jargon they parrot back. Create a swipe file of interesting customer quotes and phrases that stand out. Look for the unusual angles and unexpected framings that differentiate how they think about your solution. (Source: Diane Wiredu, Episode #226)

Conduct customer interviews with a messaging lens to inform positioning. (Note: this is contested — see Where Experts Disagree.) Interview customers and prospects specifically to understand messaging, not case studies. Dig into the challenges they faced, triggers that made them look for a solution, benefits they experienced, and the value in their own words. Their language directly informs how you write messaging, keeping you honest to buyer language rather than internal jargon. (Source: Emma Stratton, Episodes #295 and #234)

Validate positioning and differentiation through customer research, not internal consensus. When defining positioning and differentiation, don't rely on internal debate or leadership gut feel. Instead, interview existing customers to understand what actually made them choose your product over competitors. Then validate those findings with prospects and close-loss analysis. Bring this customer-backed data to leadership to ground positioning decisions in evidence rather than aspirations. (Source: Trinity Nguyen, Episode #219)

Identify your differentiator by connecting with your CEO and conducting buyer interviews. Your differentiator cannot be invented by a marketing consultant—it must be embedded in your product, founder vision, and customer reality. Start by understanding the founder's vision and why customers buy you over competitors. Conduct phone interviews with actual buyers to hear their language about what makes you different. (Source: Kira Federer, Episodes #254 and #184)

Start positioning with customer beliefs and worldview, then back into product capabilities. When developing positioning or sales messaging, first identify what the customer actually cares about and the underlying beliefs/assumptions driving their current behavior. Then introduce new information that challenges those beliefs. Only after establishing this worldview shift should you introduce your product capabilities. (Source: Jen Allen Knuth, Episode #170)

Use AI to synthesize customer research data, not to develop messaging strategy. AI is useful for pulling high-level themes from large amounts of customer data (like 50+ customer call recordings or interview transcripts). However, still listen to or read the raw customer interviews yourself to absorb the emotional context and nuance. The strategic element of messaging—deciding what to stand for and focus on—should not be handed to AI. (Source: Emma Stratton, Episode #234)

Build a messaging swipe file from real customer conversations. Maintain a document (e.g., Notion file) where you screenshot and collect messaging that resonates in real conversations: LinkedIn comments, email replies, things people say in meetings, webinars, or events. When you notice people's heads nod or they light up at a particular phrase or concept, capture it. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #139)

Use customer research findings to align product, sales, marketing, and leadership on messaging. Conduct emotional targeting research and share the findings (pains, desired outcomes, emotional drivers) with product, sales, customer success, and leadership. This creates a common language across teams about who you're selling to, why they buy, and how to talk about it. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #231)

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Emotional and Behavioral Research

Use emotional targeting framework to guide conversion optimization. Replace the standard CRO process (identify problem in GA → search best practices → test hypotheses) with a customer-first approach: conduct research to understand the emotions and real intent driving purchase decisions, then use those insights to identify what messaging, design, or positioning is missing or misaligned on the page. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #231)

Uncover emotional drivers through targeted customer interviews and surveys. Conduct customer interviews and surveys designed to surface emotional motivations rather than behavioral data. Ask specific questions about how customers felt before and after purchasing, what problems your solution eliminates, how they would describe you to a friend, and what they would miss if they could no longer use your product. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #132)

Collect four types of data for CRO research: quantitative, qualitative, behavioral, and perceptual. Collect both quantitative data (numbers) and qualitative data (words/insights) to understand what is happening on your site. Pair this with behavioral data (how people move and interact) and perceptual data (what they think and feel). Quantitative data typically answers "what is happening," while qualitative data answers "why is it happening." Both spectrums are necessary for complete research. (Source: Haley Carpenter, Episode #282)

Use research to inform hypotheses, then test with A/B experiments. Research uncovers what's not working on your website and surfaces customer insights, but it doesn't automatically tell you what to change. Use research findings to form specific hypotheses about what will improve conversions. Then validate those hypotheses through A/B testing and experimentation. Blend research insights with intuition from sales and customer success teams. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #132)

Conduct foundational customer research before A/B testing to identify page-level problems. Before running A/B tests on individual elements, conduct research to understand who you're speaking to, why they buy from you, and what their desired outcomes are. This identifies whether the core problem is messaging clarity, social proof relevance, or navigation structure—not just button copy. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #251)

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Social Listening and Secondary Research

Mine Reddit, LinkedIn, and review sites to uncover customer pains and desired outcomes. Conduct social listening by scrolling organic conversations on Reddit and LinkedIn where prospects discuss your industry and products, and review mining on G2 and Capterra to identify the top 3 pains and top 3 desired outcomes customers mention. Use these insights to identify what messaging gaps exist on your website. This requires no approval and can be done immediately. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #231)

Use Reddit site search to identify content market fit in your industry. Search Reddit for your company URL or competitor URL using the format "site:reddit.com [your-domain.com]" and sort results by top posts. This reveals which content topics resonate with your audience on Reddit, since only posts the community finds valuable gain traction. (Source: Ross Simmonds, Episode #200)

Mine G2 and software review sites to extract competitive intelligence and customer language. Review G2, Capterra, and similar review platforms for your competitors to understand what customers are saying about them. Look for patterns in what customers praise and criticize. This reveals what differentiators matter to buyers, what pain points competitors fail to address, and the language customers use to describe problems and solutions. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #250)

Lurk in niche communities (Reddit, subreddits, forums) to identify content gaps and audience pain points. Join and passively observe communities relevant to your target audience. Don't post; just read and observe which posts get the most upvotes, which questions get answered, and which topics generate the most discussion. This reveals what your audience cares about and what content gaps exist. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #155)

Source content ideas from community discussions and comments. Monitor communities (Slack groups, Reddit, forums, private communities) where your audience congregates. Read comments on popular posts to identify topics people are discussing and asking about. Use these as seeds for content ideas. (Source: Ross Simmonds, Episode #121)

Use LinkedIn comments and engagement as real-time market feedback. Treat LinkedIn comments and post engagement as a rapid feedback mechanism for testing market messaging, product positioning, and customer pain points. Post about experiments, challenges, or strategic decisions in real-time and monitor the comments for customer reactions, suggestions, and validation. Document patterns in what people are asking about and use those insights to inform content topics, product features, and sales conversations. (Source: Adam Robinson, Episode #157)

Document audience interests and preferences from email replies. When recipients reply to emails with personal details or mention interests outside of work, add that information to your ICP documentation. Over time, this creates a richer understanding of your audience as whole people—not just job titles. Use these insights to inform future email content, subject lines, and messaging angles. (Source: Joe, Episode #312)

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Channel and Audience Research

Research how your target audience consumes media before selecting channels. Before allocating budget to any marketing channel, conduct direct research with your best customers to understand their media consumption habits. Ask them to show you their phone home screen, what podcasts they listen to, what YouTube channels they watch, what TV shows they follow, and what publications they read. Use these insights to inform channel selection and creative approach. (Source: Pranav Piyush, Episode #239)

Start with audience research before choosing distribution channels. Before deciding which channels to use for distribution, first research where your audience actually spends time. Don't assume your audience is on Reddit, Facebook, LinkedIn, or any other platform. Conduct research to understand their preferred channels and communities. Only then should you commit resources to those channels. (Source: Ross Simmonds, Episode #200)

Map customer influence sources before selecting primary marketing channels. Before committing to a channel strategy, survey customers on which podcasts they follow, which social platforms they use, which influencers they respect, and which events they attend. Build an influence map from this data. Use this map to determine where to deploy customer voices and company content. (Source: Dan Cmejla, Episode #134)

Validate audience podcast consumption before launching a podcast. Before investing in a podcast, validate that your target audience actually listens to podcasts and that there is a gap in podcast coverage for your niche. Conduct desk research and talk to users to understand: Do they listen to podcasts? Are there existing podcasts serving this audience? If yes, how frequently do they publish and how dominant are they? Is there room for a new entrant? (Source: Erin May, Episode #337)

Validate SEO content taxonomy with user research before building at scale. Before investing heavily in SEO content creation, validate that your planned content structure and taxonomy matches your target audience's mental model. Conduct lightweight research (e.g., open card sort) with actual users to test whether your proposed information architecture makes sense and identify gaps. (Source: Erin May, Episode #337)

Identify influencers through deep industry knowledge, not lists. Don't search for influencer lists or databases. Instead, build deep personal knowledge of your industry by reading blogs, listening to podcasts, attending events, and watching YouTube. Influencers will naturally emerge from this immersion. If you need to ask "where can I find a list of influencers in my industry," you're not ready to do influencer partnerships. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #139)

Discover creators by asking your existing customers who they follow. Rather than relying solely on creator databases or generic "top influencers" lists, conduct customer interviews to identify which creators, newsletters, podcasts, and voices your target audience already trusts and follows. Ask existing customers directly: "Who do you follow for industry news? Which creators do you trust for updates in your field?" (Source: Brianna Doe, Episode #305)

Map where buyers research solutions and build presence in those locations. Buyers don't start their research on your website. They ask peers in Slack communities, consult advisors, search Reddit, listen to podcasts, and explore other channels. Identify where your specific buyers spend time researching and build presence there. (Source: Adam Goyette, Episode #164)

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Research Cadence and Feedback Loops

(Note: how frequently to conduct formal research is contested — see Where Experts Disagree.)

Conduct buyer behavior research twice yearly during rapid change. When market conditions are changing rapidly (as with AI adoption), conduct buyer behavior research twice per year instead of annually. G2 saw LLM usage in buying processes jump from 29% to 50% in just four months (April to August)—a 71% increase that would have been missed with annual research. (Source: Sydney Sloan, Episode #289)

Use podcasts and live events as real-time feedback loops to inform product and messaging strategy. Rather than relying on surveys or periodic customer research, use podcasts, live events, and social media engagement to gather continuous, real-time feedback on customer objections, roadblocks, and needs. This feedback directly informs product roadmap decisions, messaging refinement, pricing strategy, and organizational structure. (Source: Chris Walker, Episodes #281 and #211)

Share customer intelligence in real-time across existing decision forums. Share market intelligence and customer insights in real-time as they emerge, rather than batching them into formal weekly reports. Post quick findings (e.g., from secret shopping, customer calls, events) to leadership updates within days. Attach intelligence to existing forums where strategic decisions are being made—product meetings, customer success reviews, leadership meetings. (Source: Jennifer Cannizzaro, Episode #267)

Build a multi-source customer intelligence system. Establish three complementary intelligence channels: (1) ongoing relationships with field teams (sales and customer success) to understand wins, losses, retention, churn, and upsell; (2) structured win/loss analysis to uncover why deals are won or lost; (3) a maintained network of "friendly" customers you can call for quick feedback. Actively insert yourself into field forums and meetings where this intelligence is discussed, rather than waiting to be invited. (Source: Jennifer Cannizzaro, Episode #267)

Use community insights as a north star for product and marketing decisions. Anchor all product and marketing decisions in direct observation of what your community is doing organically. Rather than relying on internal brainstorms or top-down strategy, watch where customers are naturally moving and build products/messaging around those needs. (Source: Emma Robinson, Episode #277)

Use community engagement as a feedback loop for content strategy. Run community events (webinars, live sessions, etc.) with your audience and pay attention to which topics generate the most engagement and discussion. Use this real-time feedback to inform your broader content strategy. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #139)

Test content and messaging ideas with your small audience before scaling. Before launching a major initiative (webinar, event, product), send a small email or message to your audience asking if they'd be interested in a specific topic or format. Even 7 responses from a 50–100 person list provides validation. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #147)

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Supplementary and Secondary Research Methods

Supplement direct customer interviews with secondary insight sources to maintain cadence. When bandwidth is limited, complement direct customer interviews with secondary sources: listen to recorded sales calls, search competitor mentions in call recordings, mine G2 and software review sites, attend trade shows and debrief sales teams, review competitor webinars, ask poll questions in your own webinars, and debrief internal teams (CEO, sales) after customer interactions. These sources don't replace interviews but allow you to maintain a steady flow of market insights. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Use NotebookLM to extract insights and content ideas from ICP research data. Upload ICP research, customer data, and interview notes (up to 300 sources) into NotebookLM, then use it to generate content ideas, email copy angles, and personal interest insights. Unlike Claude, NotebookLM only pulls from sources you provide, eliminating hallucination. It syncs with Google Drive, so as you add new research, it automatically updates. (Source: Jess, Episode #312)

Conduct structured customer interviews using three core questions to define problems and positioning. Interview 50+ customers, board members, and employees using three simple questions: (1) What problem do we solve? (2) Who do we solve it for? (3) What is the impact of solving that problem? Record and analyze responses in a spreadsheet to identify patterns, gaps, and opportunities for differentiation. (Source: Kyle Coleman, Episode #206)

Discover category and problem definition using three simple questions. When entering a new role or company, conduct 50+ conversations using three repeating questions: (1) "Explain what this company does like I'm five years old," (2) "Explain the problem we solve like I'm five years old," and (3) "What problems will we be solving in 6–12 months?" Ask customers, employees, advisors, and investors. Collect all responses, identify themes and patterns, and synthesize into a clear problem statement, solution narrative, and category definition. (Source: Kyle Coleman, Episodes #198 and #123)

Use a buyer's journey canvas to rapidly understand product and market positioning. Create a structured canvas that maps the ICP, their gaps in the market, current approaches to solving the problem without your product, competitors, value propositions, and social proof. Extract value propositions from this canvas and validate them against external sources like Reddit to understand how buyers actually perceive the product. (Source: Tas Bober, Episode #154)

Attend in-person industry events to identify content topics and audience pain points. Invest in attending industry conferences or events relevant to your target audience. Walk the floor, observe which booths draw crowds, talk to attendees about their challenges, and take detailed notes on the topics and problems people care about most. Use these insights to generate 15–20 content ideas for the year ahead. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #155)

Send cross-functional teams to industry conferences to absorb customer language and market context. Bring demand gen, operations, product, and other non-traditional event attendees to conferences so they can directly observe how customers speak about their problems, what concerns them, and what excites them. This firsthand exposure to customer language and market dynamics translates into better messaging, positioning, and product decisions across the organization. (Source: Sandra Rand, Episode #265)

Conduct AI impact assessments to anticipate how customer roles will evolve in 12–18 months. Move beyond tactical AI use to strategic use by evaluating how your customers' roles and priorities will change in the next 12–18 months due to AI adoption. Ask: What will their role look like? What will they be focused on? Does your solution still serve them? If not, this signals a need for product roadmap changes, not just messaging changes. (Source: Lindsay O'Brien, Episode #304)

De-risk campaign ideas by validating with 10–15 target customers or prospects before launch. Before pitching a major campaign or initiative to leadership, conduct quick validation interviews with 10–15 target customers, prospects, or people in your target market. Ask them directly: Does this resonate? Would this get you to take a meeting or tell someone else to attend? Document their names, companies, titles, and record the conversations. Use this evidence when presenting to leadership to reduce perceived risk. (Source: Aditya Vempaty, Episode #304)

Immerse yourself in product, audience, and business context before developing content strategy. Before proposing a content strategy, spend time understanding three things deeply: (1) the product (read technical manuals, watch old webinars, review sales decks), (2) the audience (understand their pain points, fears, and what makes them resistant to solutions like yours), (3) the business (understand internal dynamics, constraints, and what decisions will cause organizational friction). (Source: Brendan Hufford, Episode #242)

Reverse-engineer your own recent purchase decisions to understand buyer behavior. Reflect on a recent purchase you made and trace the steps you took: what problem triggered the search, which channels you discovered solutions on, what content influenced you, and what finally convinced you to buy. Use this personal case study to understand how your target customers likely make similar decisions. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #141)

Use customer interviews and self-reported attribution to understand channel effectiveness. When cookie-based attribution tracking is unreliable, conduct customer interviews to understand how they actually discovered and decided to purchase your product. Ask customers directly how they found you, what content influenced them, and what channels they engaged with. This qualitative attribution data is more accurate than pixel-based tracking for understanding which channels and content actually drive conversions. (Source: Bruno Estrella, Episode #180)

Capture and track why new community/product members joined and how they heard about you. When users sign up for your product or community, ask them three questions: (1) Why did you sign up? (2) What's your role? (3) How did you hear about us? Pipe this data into a shared Slack channel so the team can see patterns in real time. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #141)

Ask "Where did you hear about us?" as a sanity check, not a decision-making metric. Include a "How did you hear about us?" question in your customer onboarding or signup flow, but construct it carefully with mutually exclusive, understandable options. Use the data as a sanity check against your attribution models and to identify unexpected channels. Do not use this data as your primary basis for budget allocation decisions; it is directional only and subject to customer recall bias. (Source: Pranav Piyush, Episode #239)

Conduct buyer intelligence surveys to understand target buyer priorities and pain points. Before writing messaging, survey your target buyer segment to understand what they care about, their priorities, and their pain points. Ask specific questions about what matters to them. This research informs messaging strategy and ensures your copy addresses actual buyer priorities, not assumptions. (Source: Peep Laja, Episode #119)

Pivot product positioning quickly when initial market assumptions prove wrong. When you launch with an assumption about your target market and it doesn't validate, pivot quickly. Get feedback loops fast, and when data shows your initial positioning is wrong, change course quickly rather than doubling down. (Source: Peep Laja, Episode #119)

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Where Experts Disagree

Disagreement 1: Should you interview customers directly, or can sales team insights substitute?

Support summary: 6 vs 4 (favoring direct customer interviews as primary)

Position A: Direct customer interviews are the gold standard; sales team input is secondary or a fallback.

Six guests hold this position:

• Emma Stratton (Episode #295) described customer interviews as the primary method for messaging research, with sales team input explicitly framed as a secondary source "when customer interviews aren't feasible."
• April Dunford (Episode #309) recommended job-to-be-done interviews directly with customers as the primary research method for companies without sales teams, asking specific questions about the decision journey that only customers can answer.
• Shoshana Kordova (Episode #250) built an entire framework around direct customer interviews as the primary intelligence source, with secondary sources (sales calls, G2 reviews) only supplementing when bandwidth is limited.
• Kira Federer (Episodes #254 and #184) stated that phone conversations with actual buyers yield more fruitful insights than mass surveys or blast-out message testing, and that this upstream work must happen before any positioning exercise.
• Talia Wolf (Episode #231) advocated for customer interviews and surveys as the foundation of CRO and messaging work, with emotional targeting research driving all optimization decisions.

Position B: Sales teams run daily messaging tests through real conversations and are a valid primary research method, not just a fallback.

Four guests hold this position:

• Emma Stratton (Episode #295) noted that sales teams "run daily messaging tests through conversations and emails with prospects" and have "realistic, down-to-earth insights into what potential customers actually care about"—though she still frames this as secondary.
• Jessica Andrews (Episode #217) argued that observing how salespeople naturally communicate with prospects—and learning from their language choices—is a primary source of positioning intelligence, not just a distribution channel for marketing assets.
• April Dunford (Episode #309) recommended interviewing sales leadership about objections, competitive dynamics, and deal patterns as a primary method for validating positioning hypotheses—distinct from and complementary to customer interviews.
• Talya Heller (Episode #246) recommended interviewing sales, CS, support, and implementation teams as a primary method for uncovering competitive positioning insights and buyer signals.

Context dependency: For PLG or zero-touch companies without sales teams, direct customer interviews are the only option (April Dunford explicitly addresses this). For companies with mature sales teams and Gong data, sales insights become more accessible. However, the disagreement about whether sales team input is primary vs. secondary is genuine for companies that have both options available.

Why it matters: If you rely primarily on sales team proxies instead of direct customer interviews, you risk inheriting sales team biases and missing the emotional context that only buyers can articulate. But if you ignore sales team intelligence, you miss real-time, high-volume signal from daily buyer conversations.

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Disagreement 2: How frequently should you conduct formal buyer behavior research?

Support summary: 2 vs 1 (favoring continuous real-time feedback over periodic formal research)

Position A: Conduct formal buyer behavior research twice per year during periods of rapid change.

• Sydney Sloan (Episode #289) cited specific data showing LLM usage in buying processes jumped from 29% to 50% in four months (April to August)—a 71% increase—arguing this rate of change requires twice-yearly research rather than annual. The implication is that structured, periodic research is necessary to track shifts that informal signals might miss.

Position B: Replace periodic formal research with continuous real-time feedback loops.

• Chris Walker (Episodes #281 and #211) explicitly argued against relying on surveys or periodic customer research, advocating instead for podcasts, live events, and social media engagement as continuous real-time feedback loops. He made this argument on two separate episodes, compressing the feedback cycle from weeks or months to real-time.

Context dependency: Formal buyer behavior research (Sydney Sloan's approach) is more relevant for companies with large customer bases and research infrastructure. Real-time feedback loops (Chris Walker's approach) are more accessible for companies with active content programs. However, the underlying disagreement—whether periodic formal research is necessary or whether continuous informal feedback suffices—is genuine.

Why it matters: Choosing the wrong cadence means either missing rapid market shifts (if you research too infrequently) or lacking the structured data needed to make confident strategic decisions (if you rely only on informal real-time signals). These approaches are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but guests present them as alternatives.

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What NOT To Do

Don't base messaging on internal brainstorming or sticky-note workshops. Starting messaging development with internal debate rather than customer research produces messaging that reflects internal assumptions, not buyer language or concerns. (Source: Diane Wiredu, Episode #300)

Don't use "Where did you hear about us?" data as your primary basis for budget allocation. This data is directional only and subject to customer recall bias. Use it as a sanity check, not a decision-making metric. (Source: Pranav Piyush, Episode #239)

Don't jump immediately to how customers use your product in interviews. That's the middle of the story, not the beginning. Start with the problem state before they knew your solution existed. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Don't work through a checklist of 8–10 prepared questions in customer interviews. This produces surface-level, generic answers. Use 3–5 core questions and spend the majority of time on follow-ups. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Don't hand the strategic element of messaging to AI. AI is useful for synthesizing large amounts of customer data, but the decision about what to stand for and focus on requires human judgment. (Source: Emma Stratton, Episode #234)

Don't ask generic survey questions like "why did you choose us?" These produce post-hoc rationalizations, not emotional context. Ask about what was going on in their life that made them search for a solution, and what they would miss if the product disappeared. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #231)

Don't search for influencer lists or databases. If you need to ask "where can I find a list of influencers in my industry," you lack the foundational industry expertise required to identify authentic fits. Build deep personal knowledge of your industry first. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #139)

Don't assume your audience is on any particular platform. Conduct research to understand their preferred channels and communities before committing resources. (Source: Ross Simmonds, Episode #200)

Don't delay writing summary notes after customer interviews. Waiting until the next day or later causes details to fade and forces you to re-summarize from recordings. Write notes immediately after each interview. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #250)

Don't limit customer insights to a single deliverable. Insights compound in value when applied across case studies, positioning, website copy, sales battle cards, ICP refinement, and product roadmap influence. (Source: Shoshana Kordova, Episode #250)

Don't assume salespeople are wrong when they don't use your positioning as written. Ask them why they're saying it differently—their real-world customer conversations often reveal gaps in your positioning that need to be adjusted. (Source: Jessica Andrews, Episode #217)

Don't conduct A/B tests on individual elements before doing foundational customer research. Testing button colors before understanding who you're speaking to and why they buy produces incremental results at best. Identify the page-level problem first. (Source: Talia Wolf, Episode #251)

Don't double down on initial positioning when data shows it's wrong. Get feedback loops fast, and when data shows your initial positioning is wrong, change course quickly. (Source: Peep Laja, Episode #119)

Don't rely solely on AI to generate content. Systematically extract unique insights from people inside your organization and your customers. Content grounded in real expertise performs better than content generated from generic information scraped from the web. (Source: Eoin Clancy, Episode #326)

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Sources

Episode	Guest	Date
#347	Chris Cunningham	2026-04-16
#337	Erin May	2026-03-12
#336	Eoin Clancy	2026-03-09
#326	Eoin Clancy	2026-02-04
#324	Clare Schmitt	2026-01-27
#322	Dave Gerhardt, Louis Grenier	2026-01-19
#312	Joe, Jess	2025-12-15
#309	April Dunford	2025-12-04
#305	Brianna Doe	2025-11-20
#304	Lindsay O'Brien, Aditya Vempaty	2025-11-17
#303	Harry Dry	2025-11-13
#300	Diane Wiredu	2025-11-03
#295	Emma Stratton	2025-10-20
#289	Sydney Sloan	2025-10-09
#288	Jennifer Delevante-Moulen	2025-10-06
#286	Kevin White	2025-09-29
#285	Pranav Piyush	2025-09-25
#282	Haley Carpenter	2025-09-15
#281	Chris Walker	2025-09-11
#279	Holly Xiao	2025-09-04
#277	Emma Robinson	2025-08-28
#276	Kady Srinivasan	2025-08-25
#271	John Short	2025-08-07
#267	Jennifer Cannizzaro	2025-07-24
#265	Sandra Rand	2025-07-17
#254	Kira Federer	2025-06-12
#251	Talia Wolf	2025-06-02
#250	Shoshana Kordova, Matt Carnevale	2025-05-29
#246	Talya Heller	2025-05-15
#245	Alex Fine	2025-05-12
#244	Amanda Goetz	2025-05-08
#242	Brendan Hufford	2025-05-01
#239	Pranav Piyush	2025-04-21
#234	Emma Stratton	2025-04-03
#231	Talia Wolf	2025-03-24
#229	Megan Lueders	2025-03-20
#226	Diane Wiredu	2025-03-10
#225	Dave Gerhardt	2025-03-06
#221	Drew Giovannoli	2025-02-20
#220	Lee Reshef	2025-02-17
#219	Trinity Nguyen	2025-02-13
#217	Jessica Andrews	2025-02-06
#212	Michael Cole	2025-01-21
#211	Chris Walker	2025-01-16
#206	Kyle Coleman	2024-12-30
#200	Ross Simmonds	2024-12-09
#198	Kyle Coleman	2024-12-02
#195	Andrew Davies	2024-11-21
#192	Lashay Lewis	2024-11-11
#184	Kira Federer	2024-10-14
#181	Will Hoekenga	2024-10-03
#180	Bruno Estrella	2024-09-30
#179	Kevin White	2024-09-26
#173	Shane Murphy	2024-09-05
#170	Dave Gerhardt, Jen Allen Knuth	2024-08-26
#164	Adam Goyette, Dave Gerhardt	2024-08-05
#158	Amanda Goetz	2024-07-15
#157	Adam Robinson	2024-07-11
#155	Matt Carnevale, Dave Gerhardt	2024-07-04
#154	Tas Bober	2024-07-01
#147	Dave Gerhardt	2024-06-06
#143	Matt Carnevale	2024-05-23
#141	Dave Gerhardt, Matt Carnevale	2024-05-16
#139	Dave Gerhardt	2024-05-09
#134	Dan Cmejla	2024-04-22
#132	Talia Wolf	2024-04-15
#124	Kera Wright	2024-03-14
#123	Kyle Coleman	2024-03-11
#121	Ross Simmonds	2024-02-29
#119	Peep Laja	2024-02-22
#118	Brian Kotlyar	2024-02-19